2015-3-3 QT of 3 fish

Sam,

I’d like to go ahead and send one of my affected fish to Dr. Baumgartner.  The coral colored one which is blind in one eye has lost so much weight I’m not sure he can recover.  He is eating a bit.

I have QT 3 fish that were not eating normally and had lost weight.  I have tried an experiment and want your thoughts.

Jack Wattley is a discus breeder and expert of many decades.  He’s written about an antimicrobial approach that I’ve occasionally used with success by lowering the pH of my QT tank gradually to 4.0.  Discus tolerate this well but bacteria don’t.  All 3 fish have started eating better but this may be temporary.  I found a scientific article that tested TB mycobacteria can handle pH down to 4.5 but not 4.0.  My question for you is will lowering the aquarium pH to 4.0 result in a pH of 4.0 in the fish where the presumed mycobacteria are?  I know they are extracellular pathogens.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

Carey

To add:  fish started eating better and the ARSG started head-standing this am.  Tx for constipation.

2015-1-4

Finished Toltrazuril yesterday..50mg/ml X 6.5 ml X 3 doses q 48h.

Today added TCN out of the thought that organisms within the granulomas may die causing necrosis and 2ndary infection as has been shown in pathology.

Hopefully this will turn the tank around.  The sickest fish still look better.  There were no noticeable sided effects from toltrazuril and the milky substance coagulated out fairly quickly.
The TCN on the other hand makes the fish stressed and go to the corners.  Of interest monocycline did not have that effect.

2014-12-29 added toltrazuril today

From Dr. Sam Young
Toltrazuril 50mg/ml addedd 6.5ml at 4:30pm.  Instructions to bathe 1 hour then 50%water change.  Repeat every 48 hrs for 3 total doses.

The fish do not appear bothered by the med and there is litttle evidence of side effects from reading on the internet.  Other studies have done baths for up to 4 hours at a time.  I have not decided what to do yet.  It is now 7:30.  I guess I will do the water change.

2012-11-12 got path results today

Uncommon Creatures

Mobile Veterinary Services

Drs. Jess and Sam Young                                                                                                   (704) 603-7520

Winston Salem NC 27103                                                                        drsam@uncommoncreatures.com

                                                                                                                         www.UncommonCreatures.com

 

Patient: Unamed  Species: Discus (Symphysodon discus)  DOB: Unknown  Sex: Unknown  Breed/Color: Orange

Owner: Carey Cottle, MD 

600 Green Valley Road, Ste. 204

Greensboro, NC 27408

(336) 453-8639

Upcoming Reminders:

None currently

Date: 10-15-2014

S/O: Client has been dealing with a few patients that continue to lose weight and are not eating.  Client first noted affected individuals were passing long mucoid fecal casts that would remain attached at the patient’s vent and under microscopy contained numerous protozoal parasites.  This was first observed 4-5 months ago.  Based on images the client captured under microscope, the tank was treated with several courses of medications including praziquantel, levamisole, metronidazole, and a fluroquinolone.  Mild and brief improvement was noted. Repeat fecals revealed some similar and some new parasitic species, but no real improvement in clinical signs. 

The poorest doing of the affected fish was selected for euthanasia and histopathology.

Assessment/Procedures: Patient extremely emaciated.  Does show mild interest in food, but regurgitates immediately.  Patient was isolated from tank mates in 1 gallon bucket and 500mg/L buffered MS-222 added.  Patient was non-responsive and floating upside down within 3 minutes.  Patient was retrieved and placed in 10% formalin.

Pathology Results: See attached report for full interpretation.  Major finding: Severe necrotizing subacute to chronic bacterial enteritis.           

Discussion: So seems we were fighting the wrong pathogen all along.  There is some mention of mild parasitic branchitis (inflammation of the gills), but this is most likely secondary to his debilitated state.  There was also some inflammation noted of gallbladder and hepatopancreas, but this is more than likely the result of parasitic migration from the gi tract.  We were not able to discern the specific species of bacteria affecting this individual however it does appear to be a gram negative species that we can focus our future treatments towards.  Acid fast stains were negative so we do know we are not dealing with Mycobacteria, which is always a good thing. Likely those individuals that may have already developed granulomas may be too far gone.  Let’s plan a visit soon to discuss the current condition of all individuals and decide on a course of antibiotic treatment.

-Sam Young, DVM

GH 140ppm
KH 70ppm
NO3 10ppm
PO4 0.5ppm

2014-11-3 cleaned filter last week

Removed old Rowaphos last week. PO4 today was 0.5ppm with goal below 2.  Algae still looks good. Using Excel and EI as directed.

One of large discus looks darker than he should and is only eating mysis shrimp....not good.

Awaiting necropsy results.

2014-10-13 Letter to vet

ADDENDUM:  THESE IMAGES ARE THE CARCASS OF BLOOD WORMS FROM FISH FOOD!

Sam,

I hope you were able to get a look at the worm in the pictures.  This worm did not come from the sick fish in QT.  It came from one in the main tank which had not eaten and then restarted eating.

I cannot find an image of a GI parasite  like this on the internet, but I understand there are thousands of species of these things.  Is there anyone we could consult now that I have the best image yet of the head of this parasite?  Let me know if I can do anything.  I treated the fish for a week with Flubendazole as Charles suggested but it did not do anything for the sickest one that you tube fed.  He acted like he might eat yesterday but didn’t.

I had one dosage of Levimasole left for the 10 gallon tank.  I gave it to the fish yesterday. It is normal for the fish to react with lethargy from this for 36 hours or so.  I am dosing both tanks with Prazi pro twice weekly and plan to do so for a month.

I have had 2 fish stop eating and restart eating in the last couple of days.  One was in the QT tank with the sickest fish and one was in the main tank and is the one from which the pics were taken.  Therefore I think maybe Prazipro helps if they are not severely infected.

Unless you think we should sacrifice this fish for pathology or have another idea, maybe as I said earlier I may not have dosed the levimasole frequently enough given the shorter worm life cycle at the higher discus tank temps.  The fish could’ve been reinfected by hatched worms.  What do you think?

Carey