2018-8-22

D/T undoubted residual Cryptobia chronic infection in the 210G discus tank and the introduction of a new healthy discus from NADA meeting, I will treat the current discus stock/tank with Dimetridazole to help decrease the risk of the new fish being infected.  Previous introductions to this tank have resulted in 75% mortality with confirmed Cryptobia.  Interestingly, the Raffelesia discus have been resistant to any signs of Cryptobia infection.

210gallons + 50 gallon sump= about 1000L

dimetridazole 80mg/L=> 80gm

This is difficult to sustain at this volume, but capturing discus in this planted tank will be difficult.  I'm considering options.

2018-6-4

Sam's discus fish showing wasting disease.  I failed to QT them.

3 fish dead.  New fish won't even eat live black worms.

Per http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077  

a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs,
followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3
days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol
(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,
repeated daily for 3 days).

240 gallons=800 L

Treated

also with TCN, Rid-Ich, Melafix....the kitchen sink.

2018-3-6

Small
Serra nitrate 50
JBL nitrate 40

Have not added nitrate in a week.  More food and more fish are the reason.



Lg
Water change

2017-10-10 New discus not eating well

Received these discus from Kenny  on 8/21 and placed in 40 gallon QT tank.

On 8/11/2017 4:21 PM, Carey Cottle MD wrote:

I’ll take the

5pcs 3.5"+/- Fiamma Rossa--$75 *from strain creator Ung Seng Lip
2pcs 4"+/- Rafflesia--$115 (nice red mix with Fiamma Rossa).

The fish have a poor appettite and I have seen stringy poop at time.  One stool analysis did not reveal cryptobia. But I suspect it.  

1.Will raise the temp to 92F and aggressively treat with 

2. flubendazole (1/2 gram of 10% Flubendazole per 20

gallons).=1g/40gallons

3.Metronidazole 2g/40gallons: Metro is best administered at 92F +/- so initially raise the tank temp to be around that range, and dose 500mg per 10g(Metro from the above link is at 250mg strength so use 2 tablets per 10g) and re-dose every 8-12 hours with a full single dose, with a 50% daily WC for a total of 5-7 days. Upon finishing the Metro treatment I would keep the tank temp elevated at around 90F for another week just to maintain their metabolic rate higher for a little longer.

Btw you should pre-dissolve the Metro tablets/powder(calculate how many Metro you'll need to use for your tank size beforehand if using tablets) with hot water in a small container and shake them well, prior to pouring them in to your main tank.

Sincerely,

Kenny Cheung
Kenny's Discus

4. 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol=10mg/L in 40gallons or 150Liters=1500mg.

Per http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077  

a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs,
followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3
days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol
(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,
repeated daily for 3 days).

2015-6-15 Crytpobia Discus plague dosing strategy

Carey,

Thanks for the update-I’m glad to hear that something is working!. Since the cryptobia are naturally found in the discus, I don’t know if eradication is feasible. Higher dosing in food materials may be a possible way to eliminate the infection.



From: Cottle, Carey
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:46 PM
To: Baumgartner, Wes; Dr. Sam Young

Subject: Cryptobia update

Drs.,

My first attempt at using dimetridazole was inadequate bc I underdosed, not taking into account the powder was 40% active ingredient.  I redosed and the fish have responded well.  Off the med for 2 weeks fish are eating well and regaining weight.  My interpretation of the appearance of the stool with presence of fat globules and other poorly digested food suggests some malabsorption is still present probably from prior damage to the GI tract.  There are still a few Cryptobia evident.  At 100X there are at most 3 per field of view.  Must I fully eliminate the Cryptobia to prevent disease?  At present the fish are not symptomatic except for being a bit underweight with the evidence of malabsorption in one of the 2 fish.

BTW, after using the messy product Emtryl for the source of dimetridazole I found that a Marcel product for fish called Clout contains this without the messy additives that cloud the water.

I think I will try this as recommended in the Cryptobia article from IFAS.  FYI, I got this from Sigma Aldrige chemical company and it was not easy to obtain.

bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol
(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,
repeated daily for 3 days).


I spoke with Dr. Chen in Washington state about his study using isometamidium to treat Cryptobia in Salmon and he was encouraging.  However, it has been impossible to obtain this in the US so far.

If you have other suggestions, let me know.

Thanks for your interest and advice,

2013-4-7

2015-5-15

Sorry, Greg/Dan- and Carey- I think I meant “he’s more local”?

Roy

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 Roy P. E. Yanong, VMD  |  Professor  |  Extension  Veterinarian
 Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory  |  Program in Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences  |   School of Forest Resources and Conservation  |  University of Florida / IFAS
 1408 24th St. SE, Ruskin, FL  33570  |  813-671-5230 x 104  |  Fax: 813-671-5234   |  rpy@ufl.edu
 Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory:  http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu   |   Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences: http://sfrc.ufl.edu/fish/  |
 Aquariumania podcast: http://petliferadio.com/aquariumania.html
________________________________________

From: Gregory Lewbart [mailto:galewbar@ncsu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 1:49 PM
To: Yanong, Roy P.E.
Cc: Carey Cottle Jr MD; Gregory A. Lewbart; drdan@avianandexotic.com; drexotic2@hotmail.com; VHC Exotic Medicine
Subject: Re: I would like to consult you regarding cryptobia infection in discus

Dear Dr. Cottle,
I'm sure both Dr. Johnson and I would be happy to try and help.  I see cases through our Exotic Animal Medicine Service (EAMS) here at the CVM:

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/vhwc/exotics/index.html
To make an appointment you can call 919-513-6999.
Dr. Dan runs a large exotic animal medicine practice and is an adjunct professor at the CVM:

http://avianandexotic.com/
Thanks Roy and best to all,
Greg

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Yanong, Roy P.E. <rpy@ufl.edu> wrote:
Hey, Carey-
Sure, I’d love to help, but I think it would make more sense for you to be in touch with someone in NC.  Dr. Greg Lewbart and Dr. Dan Johnson (both cc’d on this email), two veterinary colleagues of mine who have a lot of experience with fish medicine (they are both excellent clnicians!) should be able to help you out.  Please let me know if/when they get in touch with you (or I’ll send a reminder (!)).

Greg and Dan-
Can one of you help Carey out?  She’s more local to you.

Roy

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 Roy P. E. Yanong, VMD  |  Professor  |  Extension  Veterinarian
 Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory  |  Program in Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences  |   School of Forest Resources and Conservation  |  University of Florida / IFAS
 1408 24th St. SE, Ruskin, FL  33570  |  813-671-5230 x 104  |  Fax: 813-671-5234   |  rpy@ufl.edu
 Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory:  http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu   |   Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences: http://sfrc.ufl.edu/fish/  |
 Aquariumania podcast: http://petliferadio.com/aquariumania.html
________________________________________

From: Carey Cottle Jr MD [mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:13 PM
To: Yanong, Roy P.E.
Cc: ccottle@earthlink.net
Subject: I would like to consult you regarding cryptobia infection in discus

Dr. Yanong,

I’m in NC but would like to consult you and pay for your services in helping me with my discus.  I’ve consulted a vet here, Dr. Sam Young but he’s not an expert in fish.

My discus have a chronic wasting disease.  Three fish have been necropsied and I can send those reports to you if you wish.  They show stomach and other areas of granulomas that were negative for acid fast staining.  Dr. Wes Baumgartner suggested the most likely diagnosis was Cryptobia.  I was able to ID cryptobia in a stool sample once I knew what to look for.  I followed his suggestion to try dimetridazole (Emtryl) at 100mg/L.  I put the 2 discus who’d stopped eating in a hospital tank and used the bath for 7 days with temps raised in the tank to 90F and pH lowered gradually to 4.0 for the antibacterial effect.  Low pH does not kill Cryptobia, but the fish began eating again as soon as the pH dropped to 4.0.  The Cryptobia is gone from the last 2 stool samples after the dimetridazole bath.

However, I now have another larger parasite in the stool sample.  I don’t know what it is but it is about the size of a monogean.  I would like to get you to id it for me.  I can send a video is you are willing to help.

Thanks for your time,

Carey Cottle MD



--
Gregory A. Lewbart  MS, VMD, Dipl. ACZM
Professor of Aquatic Animal Medicine
North Carolina State University
College of Veterinary Medicine
1060 William Moore Drive
Raleigh, NC  27607
greg_lewbart@ncsu.edu

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/vhwc/exotics/index.html
http://marinesci.ncsu.edu/

2015-11-14

cleaned filter.
fish in QT with mouth ulcer with EES and kanamycin.  It's eating.

Px with thread or staghorn algae in main tank.

2015-9-12 treatment for cyrptobia

10 gallon=38L

a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs,
followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3
days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol
(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,
repeated daily for 3 days).

Emetryl=40% dimetridazole

Need 3040mg for 38L
.4X=3040mg
X=7600mg Emetryl

Also added 2-Amino-5-nitrothiazole 380mg  for 38L

2015-9-11 another sick discus

Golden Melon stopped eating about 2 weeks ago.  In QT 10 gallons(38L).
Started Mardel Clout (active ingredients in Clout are 190mg/tab of Metronidazole and 7.8mg/tab of Trichlorfon) yesterday


With
2-Amino-5-nitrothiazole 380mg yesterday and dropped pH to 4.0 for antibacterial effect.

I think I waited too long.  He doesn't look good.

Will do this for 3 days with 80% WC each day.

2015-5-18 underdosed dimetridazole

Just realized I underdosed dimetridazole bc of math error.
151L x 80mg/L=12000mg=12gm
But powder is only 40% dimetridazole therefore need 30gm of powder to get 12gm active ingredient.
So I'm trying again today.

BTW, very difficult to get isometamidium or almiramide.
Ordered, 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15154736

2015-5-5 Cryptobia still present in ARSG after dimetridazole

2015-5-1

Both discus in hospital tank are eating.  The blue discus is a bit darker than normal but otherwise they look well, though still too thin.

Stool sample from blue discus today is clear of cryptobia.  Finished 9 days of dimetridazole 100mg/L dosed daily with 90% water changes. 
pH 4.0
temp 90.

201-4-21

Hosp Tank
Fish still eating well.  Dosed metronidazole (70%) powder at 3gm AM am PM for 7 days on advice from the discus importer from whom I bought the fish.  Also per his recommendation raised temp to 92F.
Fish tolerated it well but stool sample from ARSG still showed cryptobia last night.  Attempted pic with phone with marginal success.

Will switch to Emtryl (dimetridazole 40%) powder.  400mg in 40 gallons test dose this am was tolerated well.

In the video the cryptobia are not well focused.  They swim fast and are the larger objects that periodically swim through the field of view at 8 sec and 51 sec marks.
Compare a better you tube showing the same organism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WucYjMth6gI

Per http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077

"a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3 days);"
So 40 gallons would be 151 liters. Therefore I will dose 6gm q 12 hours.

2014-4-17

Green spot algae and crypts melting!
Haven't dosed phosphate or nitrate bc of readings with test tube.  This was a mistake.  Will cut crypts way back and dose.
Probably also need to clean the filter.
PO4 1 ppm
NO3 80 ppm...too high.

Looks like phosphate is not high enough or perhaps its a combo problem of inadequate phosphate, K+, or low CO2 or dirty filter.

2014-4-13

So per Kenny and my experience will dose MetroPlex (70% Metronidazole) at at least 500mg/10gal BID to TID for 7 days before I try Dimetridazole which I received today.

Dosed 2.6gm of 70% Metro tonight.  Will need to dose BID vs TID.  So that would be 750mg/10gal q 12 hours.  Also added a little MgSO4 bc no aquarium salt here to ease tx with antibiotic.

pH still maintained at 4.0 which has clearly helped more than anything.  They are eating but not well.

 Set up the Mike Senske tank.  Will do dry start method to decrease demand and improve early plant growth.

CC

Carey,

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4753

Metro is best administered at 92F +/- so initially raise the tank temp to be around that range, and dose 500mg per 10g(Metro from the above link is at 250mg strength so use 2 tablets per 10g) and re-dose every 8-12 hours with a full single dose, with a 50% daily WC for a total of 5-7 days. Upon finishing the Metro treatment I would keep the tank temp elevated at around 90F for another week just to maintain their metabolic rate higher for a little longer.

Btw you should pre-dissolve the Metro tablets/powder(calculate how many Metro you'll need to use for your tank size beforehand if using tablets) with hot water in a small container and shake them well, prior to pouring them in to your main tank.

Sincerely,

Kenny Cheung
Kenny's Discus
Tel: (650) 290-1283
E-mail: kennysdiscus@gmail.com
Monthly shipment listing: http://goo.gl/IIGMwk
Facebook page (Click "Like" to follow us): https://www.facebook.com/kennysdiscus 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2015, at 2:33 PM, <ccottle@earthlink.net> <ccottle@earthlink.net> wrote:

Kenny,

I hope you are well.

I've bought fish from you several times and they are beautiful.  Unfortunately my fish have a chronic wasting disease caused by cryptobia.  This has been confirmed by necropsy of 3 fish and microscopic stool analysis showing the organisms.  Unfortunately, the vets I've consulted know of no cure.  I've ordered dimetridazole as recommended by one of the vets.  Given your experience I wonder if you know of something else to suggest.  If this doesn't work I will lose all these fish...I have 8 with 3 showing signs of the infection and one confirmed with it from analyzing the stool.

Thanks,
Carey Cottle MD

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: "Baumgartner, Wes"
Sent: Apr 8, 2015 9:04 PM
To: Carey Cottle Jr MD
Subject: RE: CONFIRMED CRYPTOBIOSIS RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

Carey,

I haven’t received any information from Roy Yanong in florida. At this point I’d say to try either of the methods advocated by florida and see if either works.  I’ll send an email to PTK Woo in Canada-he’s the expert on vaccines in cryptobia.

From: Carey Cottle Jr MD [mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 6:35 PM
To: Baumgartner, Wes; Dr. Sam Young
Subject: CONFIRMED CRYPTOBIOSIS RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

Wes and Sam,

I have examined a stool sample from an affected fish and under 400X clearly seen numerous cryptobia.  This YouTube video helped my certainty about what I’m seeing.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE0QtwIwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWucYjMth6gI&ei=DbglVcHiDomCsAW-54HQBA&usg=AFQjCNGxbejRsVaej10gcQkJrgcouyMMKw&sig2=OgUx_w66FvZzztZ41bV7hw

The fish have started eating again in the QT at pH 4.0.  But it does not look like this organism is affected.  Please offer me something, even experimental to try on this organism.  I’ve been using metronidazole again, but I have used it before without cure. Univ of Fla suggest this:

Experiments run at the Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory suggest that these two treatment regimens may decrease the infection load: a) a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3 days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol (10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3 days).

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077

Sam, Can you help me get one of these to try?

Any help is appreciated.

Carey

              

From: Baumgartner, Wes [mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 4:25 PM
To: Carey G Cottle Jr MD
Subject: RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

Carey,

You raise an interesting question. I don’t know if the cryptobia can survive the low pH, nor am I sure of the pH of a discus stomach. If the cryptobia are relatively symbiotic in the discus stomach, then I tend to doubt that acid treatment  would affect flagellates in an acid stomach. However, if diseased individuals have abnormally high gastric pH, then acid treatments (with swallowing) may affect flagellate numbers in the stomach, possibly relieving the infection temporarily.

Also, you’re right that the acid treatment may be doing something unrelated to the cryptobia. I found moderate numbers of dermocystidium in the gills, which normally don’t cause too much of a problem. Acid baths may reduce these parasites, leading to improved fish behavior.

I’ll look in to cryptobia in stool samples as a diagnostic method.

From: Carey G Cottle Jr MD [mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 11:29 PM
To: Baumgartner, Wes
Cc: uncommoncreaturesmvs@gmail.com; 'Carey Cottle Jr MD'
Subject: FW: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

Wes, 

I wonder if we can take advantage of one of the features of discus….they tolerate a low pH of 4.0.  Do cryptobia tolerate pH 4.0? 

Here’s the background.  I took the 3 discus that showed poor or limited eating and QT them for 3-4 days and lowered the pH to 4.0.  The discus that was euthanized, and which you received, responded initially.  He began eating all foods again for 2-3 days (after not eating for over a week) before he suddenly died.  The other fish also responded to the low pH treatment and have started eating all foods again.  I had seen an article that said mycobacteria did not survive at pH below 4.0 and I knew discus could so that’s what gave me the idea to try it.  BC of a trip I had upcoming I had to return them to the main tank on Tues of this last week.  My main tank is maintained between 6.2 and 6.8 depending on the time of day. In the QT tank at pH 4.0 the nitrifying bacteria also die and ammonia levels build up too high without daily 80% water changes.  I wasn’t going to be there to make the daily water changes necessary for maintaining a pH 4.0 tank therefore I had to return the fish to the main tank. 

I wonder if Cyrptobia don’t tolerate low pH could we do an experiment using low pH to try curing the discus from this menace.  If you think adding metronidazole may help as well we could do a combination.  It was really remarkable seeing all the fish regain their appetite using the low pH.  This of course could have been a coincidence.  Humans secret acid in their GI tract and yet occasionally pathogens survive.  Maybe discus GI pathogens also tolerate low pH.

For your info.  My main tank is a planted discus tank 90 gallons in size.  It is maintained at 82F for the discus.  I do 40% water changes weekly without fail.  I use local tap water every other week alternating with RO water for the changes.  The tank is connected to a computer where I monitor temp, pH, ORP (oxidation reduction potential) continuously. 

Can Cryptobia be diagnosed by microscopy of stool?  I have a Nikon microscope and am interested in learning to better recognize pathogens in discus stool samples.  If you have any suggestions on aids to help with microscopic identification of pathogens I would appreciate it.  I have seen flagellates but wasn’t sure what was pathogenic and what wasn’t.  Of course stool samples must be analyzed immediately upon collection.  If I learn to recognize the pathogens then Dr. Young can treat the fish correctly.

Thank you for your expertise, interest, and concern.

Carey Cottle

From: Baumgartner, Wes [mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 1:34 PM
To: Carey Cottle Jr MD
Subject: RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

Carey,

I’ve reviewed the histology slides of your discus and I’ve found several microscopic stomach granulomas that lack acid fast organisms. A wasting syndrome in discus fish associated with stomach granulomas has been reported in association with cryptobia iubilans, a flagellate of the intestinal tract. I think this is probably what’s been going on. I saw no convincing evidence of mycobacteriosis. I spoke with Sam and I’ve got a sample of spleen in ethanol that we can run PCR for mycobacteria on. However, without granulomas in any tissue but the stomach, I doubt we’d find any evidence for mycobacteria.

I’ve attached a report of cryptobia in discus that you will find interesting. The syndrome in your tank is remarkably similar. Treatment is difficult.

Additionally, there is abundant iron in the liver, which I associate with high red cell turnover. It is uncommon in fish and of uncertain significance, though can be associated with pollution in wild fish populations.

I’ll send a report by next week to Sam. This is an interesting condition in discus, the mechanism and cause of which is not entirely certain. I’ll mention this to the fish parasitologist in the department and see if there is interest in studying this disease.

Many thanks for the great case.

Regards,

From: Carey Cottle Jr MD [mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:47 PM
To: Baumgartner, Wes
Cc: Dr. Sam Young
Subject: RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

Thank you so much, Wes!  I am anxious to learn from your expertise.  I will forward this to Sam Young DVM.  He is happy to participate as well. 

My loss will be rewarded by the advancement of knowledge for the significant Discus loving community.  “Discus wasting disease” is a common syndrome from which my  fish suffer.  No doubt, this syndrome can have multiple causes, but a definitive diagnosis in any case would be helpful.

Be safe in the ice,

Carey

From: Baumgartner, Wes [mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:52 PM
To: Carey Cottle Jr MD
Subject: RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

Carey,

I will be out of the office tomorrow due to icy weather here in Mississippi-I’ll try and contact Sam tomorrow or perhaps Thursday.

I spoke with a friend of mine at LSU- if the discus is euthanized and freshly examined, sterile samples of granulomatous material can be overnighted on ice to him for culture, PCR, and antimicrobial testing.

His address:

Louisiana Aquatic Animal Diagnostic Lab c/o John Hawke

1043 River Road

Baton Rouge LA 70803

Formalin fixed tissues, preferably the whole fish, can be sent to me at:

Wes Baumgartner

240 Wise Center Drive

Mississippi State, MS

39762

I’ll have a look at the reports and materials you’ve sent.

Best regards,

Wes

From: Carey Cottle Jr MD [mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 10:22 AM
To: Baumgartner, Wes
Subject: FW: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)

From: Carey Cottle Jr MD [mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 7:09 PM
To: Dr. Sam Young (drsam@uncommoncreatures.com); ccottle@earthlink.net
Subject: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus

Sam,

There are couple of things to see in this stool sample. I don’t know what either are.

One is round large with apparent nucleus and spike protrusions.

The other is a rod-like organism with a distinct wall and which is motile.  The video shows that.

I checked the Noga textbook.  Didn’t see anything like these.  They may be benign.

Thanks again.

Carey

2015-3-6 QT fish

pH 4.0 in QT.
All fish have resumed eating.
The constipation that developed resolved with MgSO4.

2015-3-3 QT of 3 fish

Sam,

I’d like to go ahead and send one of my affected fish to Dr. Baumgartner.  The coral colored one which is blind in one eye has lost so much weight I’m not sure he can recover.  He is eating a bit.

I have QT 3 fish that were not eating normally and had lost weight.  I have tried an experiment and want your thoughts.

Jack Wattley is a discus breeder and expert of many decades.  He’s written about an antimicrobial approach that I’ve occasionally used with success by lowering the pH of my QT tank gradually to 4.0.  Discus tolerate this well but bacteria don’t.  All 3 fish have started eating better but this may be temporary.  I found a scientific article that tested TB mycobacteria can handle pH down to 4.5 but not 4.0.  My question for you is will lowering the aquarium pH to 4.0 result in a pH of 4.0 in the fish where the presumed mycobacteria are?  I know they are extracellular pathogens.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

Carey

To add:  fish started eating better and the ARSG started head-standing this am.  Tx for constipation.