tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4566272702836552522024-03-05T10:30:17.280-08:00Carey's Planted Discus AquariumCarey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-86187655150138177582018-08-22T16:03:00.001-07:002018-08-22T16:03:59.646-07:002018-8-22D/T undoubted residual Cryptobia chronic infection in the 210G discus tank and the introduction of a new healthy discus from NADA meeting, I will treat the current discus stock/tank with Dimetridazole to help decrease the risk of the new fish being infected. Previous introductions to this tank have resulted in 75% mortality with confirmed Cryptobia. Interestingly, the Raffelesia discus have been resistant to any signs of Cryptobia infection.<br />
<br />
210gallons + 50 gallon sump= about 1000L<br />
<br />
dimetridazole 80mg/L=> 80gm<br />
<br />
This is difficult to sustain at this volume, but capturing discus in this planted tank will be difficult. I'm considering options.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-24000046537288219392018-06-04T17:12:00.001-07:002018-06-04T17:12:27.818-07:002018-6-4Sam's discus fish showing wasting disease. I failed to QT them.<br />
<br />
<div class="MsoNormal" style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;">3 fish dead. New fish won't even eat live black worms.</span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;"><br /></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;">Per http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077 </span></div>
<span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;"><br />a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs,<br />followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3<br />days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol<br />(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,<br />repeated daily for 3 days).</span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;"><br /></span>
<span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;">240 gallons=800 L</span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;"><br /></span>
<span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;">Treated</span><br />
<span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;"><br /></span>
<span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 15.6933px;">also with TCN, Rid-Ich, Melafix....the kitchen sink.</span>Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-34138901346435885992018-03-07T09:57:00.000-08:002018-03-07T09:57:38.584-08:002018-3-6Small<br />
Serra nitrate 50<br />
JBL nitrate 40<br />
<br />
Have not added nitrate in a week. More food and more fish are the reason.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Lg<br />
Water changeCarey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-64312515462347191892017-10-10T15:17:00.000-07:002017-10-10T15:17:16.759-07:002017-10-10 New discus not eating wellReceived these discus from Kenny on 8/21 and placed in 40 gallon QT tank.<br />
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On 8/11/2017 4:21 PM, Carey Cottle MD wrote:<u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="color: windowtext; font-family: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11.0pt;">I’ll take the </span><u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></div>
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5pcs 3.5"+/- Fiamma Rossa--$75 *from strain creator Ung
Seng Lip<br />
2pcs 4"+/- Rafflesia--$115 (nice red mix with Fiamma Rossa).<u5:p></u5:p><o:p></o:p></div>
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<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
The fish have a poor appettite and I have seen stringy poop at time. One stool analysis did not reveal cryptobia. But I suspect it. </div>
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1.Will raise the temp to 92F and aggressively treat with </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
2. flubendazole (1/2 gram of 10% Flubendazole per 20</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
gallons).=1g/40gallons</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
3.<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.6667px;">Metronidazole 2g/40gallons: </span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Metro is best
administered at 92F +/- so initially raise the tank temp to be around that
range, and dose 500mg per 10g(Metro from the above link is at 250mg strength so
use 2 tablets per 10g) and re-dose every 8-12 hours with a full single dose,
with a 50% daily WC for a total of 5-7 days. Upon finishing the Metro treatment
I would keep the tank temp elevated at around 90F for another week just to
maintain their metabolic rate higher for a little longer.</span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="color: #636363; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Btw you should
pre-dissolve the Metro tablets/powder(calculate how many Metro you'll need to
use for your tank size beforehand if using tablets) with hot water in a small
container and shake them well, prior to pouring them in to your main tank.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="color: #636363; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
<span style="color: #636363; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 11.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;">Kenny Cheung<br />
Kenny's Discus<br />
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">4. </span><span style="color: #636363; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">2-amino-5-nitrothiazol=10mg/L in 40gallons or
150Liters=1500mg.</span></div>
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<span style="color: #636363; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 11.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin;"><br />
<span style="background: white;">Per http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077 </span></span></div>
<span style="color: #636363; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 11.0pt; line-height: 107%; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;"><br />
a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs,<br />
followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3<br />
days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol<br />
(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,<br />
repeated daily for 3 days).<br />
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br />
<!--[endif]--></span><div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #636363; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-39637342593809288352017-10-10T14:39:00.001-07:002017-10-10T14:39:35.787-07:002015-6-15 Crytpobia Discus plague dosing strategy<br />
Carey,<br />
<br />
Thanks for the update-I’m glad to hear that something is working!. Since the cryptobia are naturally found in the discus, I don’t know if eradication is feasible. Higher dosing in food materials may be a possible way to eliminate the infection.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
From: Cottle, Carey<br />
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:46 PM<br />
To: Baumgartner, Wes; Dr. Sam Young<br />
<br />
Subject: Cryptobia update<br />
<br />
Drs.,<br />
<br />
My first attempt at using dimetridazole was inadequate bc I underdosed, not taking into account the powder was 40% active ingredient. I redosed and the fish have responded well. Off the med for 2 weeks fish are eating well and regaining weight. My interpretation of the appearance of the stool with presence of fat globules and other poorly digested food suggests some malabsorption is still present probably from prior damage to the GI tract. There are still a few Cryptobia evident. At 100X there are at most 3 per field of view. Must I fully eliminate the Cryptobia to prevent disease? At present the fish are not symptomatic except for being a bit underweight with the evidence of malabsorption in one of the 2 fish.<br />
<br />
BTW, after using the messy product Emtryl for the source of dimetridazole I found that a Marcel product for fish called Clout contains this without the messy additives that cloud the water.<br />
<br />
I think I will try this as recommended in the Cryptobia article from IFAS. FYI, I got this from Sigma Aldrige chemical company and it was not easy to obtain.<br />
<br />
bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol<br />
(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,<br />
repeated daily for 3 days).<br />
<br />
<br />
I spoke with Dr. Chen in Washington state about his study using isometamidium to treat Cryptobia in Salmon and he was encouraging. However, it has been impossible to obtain this in the US so far.<br />
<br />
If you have other suggestions, let me know.<br />
<br />
Thanks for your interest and advice,<br />
<br />Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-47390950766599488562016-04-14T17:55:00.001-07:002016-04-14T17:55:09.702-07:002013-4-7<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEizQYH45Q_B-uZekJ5OUcr-HYG9DBF1JD98CN4Skjvtk_HIXMUDPVB0ClkFHWSm4tiaOGRuHoV5z92_7x4IAXY8LQyFeEt98PJGKfvCRqLagkKbfiDipLsO9Jxb2K9qajaB-3eu10-uL58/s1600/_MG_8584c.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="137" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEizQYH45Q_B-uZekJ5OUcr-HYG9DBF1JD98CN4Skjvtk_HIXMUDPVB0ClkFHWSm4tiaOGRuHoV5z92_7x4IAXY8LQyFeEt98PJGKfvCRqLagkKbfiDipLsO9Jxb2K9qajaB-3eu10-uL58/s320/_MG_8584c.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<br />Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-1009711044433611182015-12-24T23:35:00.002-08:002015-12-24T23:35:53.200-08:002015-5-15Sorry, Greg/Dan- and Carey- I think I meant “he’s more local”? <br />
<br />
Roy<br />
<br />
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<br />
Roy P. E. Yanong, VMD | Professor | Extension Veterinarian<br />
Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory | Program in Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences | School of Forest Resources and Conservation | University of Florida / IFAS<br />
1408 24th St. SE, Ruskin, FL 33570 | 813-671-5230 x 104 | Fax: 813-671-5234 | rpy@ufl.edu<br />
Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory: http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu | Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences: http://sfrc.ufl.edu/fish/ | <br />
Aquariumania podcast: http://petliferadio.com/aquariumania.html<br />
________________________________________<br />
<br />
From: Gregory Lewbart [mailto:galewbar@ncsu.edu]<br />
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 1:49 PM<br />
To: Yanong, Roy P.E.<br />
Cc: Carey Cottle Jr MD; Gregory A. Lewbart; drdan@avianandexotic.com; drexotic2@hotmail.com; VHC Exotic Medicine<br />
Subject: Re: I would like to consult you regarding cryptobia infection in discus<br />
<br />
Dear Dr. Cottle,<br />
I'm sure both Dr. Johnson and I would be happy to try and help. I see cases through our Exotic Animal Medicine Service (EAMS) here at the CVM:<br />
<br />
http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/vhwc/exotics/index.html<br />
To make an appointment you can call 919-513-6999.<br />
Dr. Dan runs a large exotic animal medicine practice and is an adjunct professor at the CVM:<br />
<br />
http://avianandexotic.com/<br />
Thanks Roy and best to all,<br />
Greg<br />
<br />
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Yanong, Roy P.E. <rpy@ufl.edu> wrote:<br />
Hey, Carey-<br />
Sure, I’d love to help, but I think it would make more sense for you to be in touch with someone in NC. Dr. Greg Lewbart and Dr. Dan Johnson (both cc’d on this email), two veterinary colleagues of mine who have a lot of experience with fish medicine (they are both excellent clnicians!) should be able to help you out. Please let me know if/when they get in touch with you (or I’ll send a reminder (!)).<br />
<br />
Greg and Dan-<br />
Can one of you help Carey out? She’s more local to you.<br />
<br />
Roy<br />
<br />
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<br />
Roy P. E. Yanong, VMD | Professor | Extension Veterinarian<br />
Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory | Program in Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences | School of Forest Resources and Conservation | University of Florida / IFAS<br />
1408 24th St. SE, Ruskin, FL 33570 | 813-671-5230 x 104 | Fax: 813-671-5234 | rpy@ufl.edu<br />
Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory: http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu | Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences: http://sfrc.ufl.edu/fish/ | <br />
Aquariumania podcast: http://petliferadio.com/aquariumania.html<br />
________________________________________<br />
<br />
From: Carey Cottle Jr MD [mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net]<br />
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:13 PM<br />
To: Yanong, Roy P.E.<br />
Cc: ccottle@earthlink.net<br />
Subject: I would like to consult you regarding cryptobia infection in discus<br />
<br />
Dr. Yanong,<br />
<br />
I’m in NC but would like to consult you and pay for your services in helping me with my discus. I’ve consulted a vet here, Dr. Sam Young but he’s not an expert in fish. <br />
<br />
My discus have a chronic wasting disease. Three fish have been necropsied and I can send those reports to you if you wish. They show stomach and other areas of granulomas that were negative for acid fast staining. Dr. Wes Baumgartner suggested the most likely diagnosis was Cryptobia. I was able to ID cryptobia in a stool sample once I knew what to look for. I followed his suggestion to try dimetridazole (Emtryl) at 100mg/L. I put the 2 discus who’d stopped eating in a hospital tank and used the bath for 7 days with temps raised in the tank to 90F and pH lowered gradually to 4.0 for the antibacterial effect. Low pH does not kill Cryptobia, but the fish began eating again as soon as the pH dropped to 4.0. The Cryptobia is gone from the last 2 stool samples after the dimetridazole bath.<br />
<br />
However, I now have another larger parasite in the stool sample. I don’t know what it is but it is about the size of a monogean. I would like to get you to id it for me. I can send a video is you are willing to help.<br />
<br />
Thanks for your time,<br />
<br />
Carey Cottle MD<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
--<br />
Gregory A. Lewbart MS, VMD, Dipl. ACZM<br />
Professor of Aquatic Animal Medicine<br />
North Carolina State University<br />
College of Veterinary Medicine<br />
1060 William Moore Drive<br />
Raleigh, NC 27607<br />
greg_lewbart@ncsu.edu<br />
<br />
http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/vhc/vhwc/exotics/index.html<br />
http://marinesci.ncsu.edu/<br />
<div>
<br /></div>
Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-72224572597369491672015-11-14T16:31:00.000-08:002015-11-14T16:31:22.170-08:002015-11-14cleaned filter.<br />
fish in QT with mouth ulcer with EES and kanamycin. It's eating.<br />
<br />
Px with thread or staghorn algae in main tank.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-45561915433077657122015-09-12T10:30:00.000-07:002015-09-12T10:30:03.273-07:002015-9-12 treatment for cyrptobia 10 gallon=38L<br />
<br />
a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs,<br />
followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3<br />
days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol<br />
(10 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change,<br />
repeated daily for 3 days).<br />
<br />
Emetryl=40% dimetridazole<br />
<br />
Need 3040mg for 38L<br />
.4X=3040mg<br />
X=7600mg Emetryl<br />
<br />
Also added 2-Amino-5-nitrothiazole 380mg for 38L<br />
<br />
<br />Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-38766906516878601442015-09-11T17:41:00.000-07:002015-09-11T17:41:12.343-07:002015-9-11 another sick discusGolden Melon stopped eating about 2 weeks ago. In QT 10 gallons(38L).<br />
Started Mardel Clout (<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">active ingredients in Clout are 190mg/tab of
Metronidazole and 7.8mg/tab of Trichlorfon</span>) yesterday<br />
<br />
<br />
With<br />
2-Amino-5-nitrothiazole 380mg yesterday and dropped pH to 4.0 for antibacterial effect.<br />
<br />
I think I waited too long. He doesn't look good.<br />
<br />
Will do this for 3 days with 80% WC each day.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-36272120659435487802015-05-18T10:21:00.002-07:002015-05-18T10:21:38.686-07:002015-5-18 underdosed dimetridazoleJust realized I underdosed dimetridazole bc of math error.<br />
151L x 80mg/L=12000mg=12gm<br />
But powder is only 40% dimetridazole therefore need 30gm of powder to get 12gm active ingredient.<br />
So I'm trying again today.<br />
<br />
BTW, very difficult to get isometamidium or almiramide.<br />
Ordered, 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol.<br />
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15154736<br />
<br />Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-51268949276522658822015-05-05T19:16:00.001-07:002015-05-05T20:34:59.899-07:002015-5-5 Cryptobia still present in ARSG after dimetridazole<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<iframe allowfullscreen='allowfullscreen' webkitallowfullscreen='webkitallowfullscreen' mozallowfullscreen='mozallowfullscreen' width='320' height='266' src='https://www.blogger.com/video.g?token=AD6v5dxfXgWc78dWKMGjQqwdcqo-FrVXawMhMR7O9W8no0oJG5GDowZZ-dsW3qGzLCNzmVquSHHYk4469E0FWIpRBg' class='b-hbp-video b-uploaded' frameborder='0'></iframe></div>
<br />Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-55352457876572045312015-05-01T15:10:00.001-07:002015-05-01T15:10:09.428-07:002015-5-1Both discus in hospital tank are eating. The blue discus is a bit darker than normal but otherwise they look well, though still too thin.<br />
<br />
Stool sample from blue discus today is clear of cryptobia. Finished 9 days of dimetridazole 100mg/L dosed daily with 90% water changes. <br />
pH 4.0<br />
temp 90.<br />
<br />
<br />Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-44962524394320440352015-04-21T13:32:00.000-07:002015-04-21T15:37:32.819-07:00201-4-21Hosp Tank<br />
Fish still eating well. Dosed metronidazole (70%) powder at 3gm AM am PM for 7 days on advice from the discus importer from whom I bought the fish. Also per his recommendation raised temp to 92F.<br />
Fish tolerated it well but stool sample from ARSG still showed cryptobia last night. Attempted pic with phone with marginal success.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
Will switch to Emtryl (dimetridazole 40%) powder. 400mg in 40 gallons test dose this am was tolerated well.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<iframe allowfullscreen='allowfullscreen' webkitallowfullscreen='webkitallowfullscreen' mozallowfullscreen='mozallowfullscreen' width='320' height='266' src='https://www.blogger.com/video.g?token=AD6v5dzkzKViqc8mBPaN8Pc4WGmQwGaE5As98XatN5WCWYbYOo3F4ZjNW8Uu0lGwEzYdREmVWNjxXvJ_8Tl9DkHHxg' class='b-hbp-video b-uploaded' frameborder='0'></iframe></div>
<br />
In the video the cryptobia are not well focused. They swim fast and are the larger objects that periodically swim through the field of view at 8 sec and 51 sec marks.<br />
Compare a better you tube showing the same organism:<br />
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WucYjMth6gI<br />
<br />
Per http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077<br />
<br />
"a bath treatment with dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3 days);"<br />
So 40 gallons would be 151 liters. Therefore I will dose 6gm q 12 hours.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-23604326099451640362015-04-17T14:50:00.000-07:002015-04-17T14:50:38.663-07:002014-4-17Green spot algae and crypts melting!<br />
Haven't dosed phosphate or nitrate bc of readings with test tube. This was a mistake. Will cut crypts way back and dose.<br />
Probably also need to clean the filter.<br />
PO4 1 ppm<br />
NO3 80 ppm...too high.<br />
<br />
Looks like phosphate is not high enough or perhaps its a combo problem of inadequate phosphate, K+, or low CO2 or dirty filter.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-755630646915566222015-04-13T17:38:00.000-07:002015-04-13T17:38:02.623-07:002014-4-13<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">So per Kenny and my experience will dose MetroPlex (70% Metronidazole) at at least 500mg/10gal BID to TID for 7 days before I try Dimetridazole which I received today.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Dosed 2.6gm of 70% Metro tonight. Will need to dose BID vs TID. So that would be 750mg/10gal q 12 hours. Also added a little MgSO4 bc no aquarium salt here to ease tx with antibiotic.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">pH still maintained at 4.0 which has clearly helped more than anything. They are eating but not well. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> Set up the Mike Senske tank. Will do dry start method to decrease demand and improve early plant growth.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">CC</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Carey,</span><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><a href="http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4753">http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4753</a></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Metro
is best administered at 92F +/- so initially raise the tank temp to be around
that range, and dose 500mg per 10g(Metro from the above link is at 250mg
strength so use 2 tablets per 10g) and re-dose every 8-12 hours with a full
single dose, with a 50% daily WC for a total of 5-7 days. Upon finishing the
Metro treatment I would keep the tank temp elevated at around 90F for another
week just to maintain their metabolic rate higher for a little longer.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Btw
you should pre-dissolve the Metro tablets/powder(calculate how many Metro
you'll need to use for your tank size beforehand if using tablets) with hot
water in a small container and shake them well, prior to pouring them in to
your main tank.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Sincerely,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Kenny Cheung<br />
Kenny's Discus<br />
Tel: <a href="tel:(650)%20290-1283">(650)
290-1283</a><br />
E-mail: <a href="mailto:kennysdiscus@gmail.com">kennysdiscus@gmail.com</a><br />
Monthly shipment listing: <a href="http://goo.gl/IIGMwk">http://goo.gl/IIGMwk</a><br />
Facebook page (Click "Like" to follow us): <a href="https://www.facebook.com/kennysdiscus">https://www.facebook.com/kennysdiscus</a> </span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Sent
from my iPhone</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
On Apr 10, 2015, at 2:33 PM, <<a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net">ccottle@earthlink.net</a>>
<<a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net">ccottle@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">
<span style="color: black; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Kenny,<br />
<br />
I hope you are well.<br />
<br />
I've bought fish from you several times and they are beautiful.
Unfortunately my fish have a chronic wasting disease caused by cryptobia.
This has been confirmed by necropsy of 3 fish and microscopic stool analysis
showing the organisms. Unfortunately, the vets I've consulted know of no
cure. I've ordered dimetridazole as recommended by one of the vets.
Given your experience I wonder if you know of something else to suggest.
If this doesn't work I will lose all these fish...I have 8 with 3 showing signs
of the infection and one confirmed with it from analyzing the stool.<br />
<br />
Thanks,<br />
Carey Cottle MD</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black; font-family: "Arial",sans-serif; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">-----Forwarded
Message----- <br />
From: "Baumgartner, Wes" <br />
Sent: Apr 8, 2015 9:04 PM <br />
To: Carey Cottle Jr MD <br />
Subject: RE: CONFIRMED CRYPTOBIOSIS RE: new stool sample
of corral colored thin discus (Cottle) <br />
<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;" />
<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;" />
</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Carey,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I haven’t received any
information from Roy Yanong in florida. At this point I’d say to try either of
the methods advocated by florida and see if either works. I’ll send an
email to PTK Woo in Canada-he’s the expert on vaccines in cryptobia.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Carey Cottle Jr MD [<a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net">mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net</a>]
<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 08, 2015 6:35 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> Baumgartner, Wes; Dr. Sam Young<br />
<b>Subject:</b> CONFIRMED CRYPTOBIOSIS RE: new stool sample of corral colored
thin discus (Cottle)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Wes and Sam,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I have examined a stool sample
from an affected fish and under 400X clearly seen numerous cryptobia.
This YouTube video helped my certainty about what I’m seeing.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;"><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE0QtwIwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWucYjMth6gI&ei=DbglVcHiDomCsAW-54HQBA&usg=AFQjCNGxbejRsVaej10gcQkJrgcouyMMKw&sig2=OgUx_w66FvZzztZ41bV7hw" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE0QtwIwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWucYjMth6gI&ei=DbglVcHiDomCsAW-54HQBA&usg=AFQjCNGxbejRsVaej10gcQkJrgcouyMMKw&sig2=OgUx_w66FvZzztZ41bV7hw</a></span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">The fish have started eating
again in the QT at pH 4.0. But it does not look like this organism is
affected. Please offer me something, even experimental to try on this
organism. I’ve been using metronidazole again, but I have used it before
without cure. Univ of Fla suggest this:</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: .5in;">
<span style="color: black;">Experiments
run at the Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory suggest that these two treatment
regimens may decrease the infection load: a) a bath treatment with
dimetridazole (80 mg/L for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated
daily for 3 days); or b) a bath treatment with 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol (10 mg/L
for 24 hrs, followed by a 80-100% water change, repeated daily for 3 days).</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: .5in;">
<span style="color: #1f497d;"><a href="http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077" target="_blank">http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077</a></span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Sam, Can you help me get one of
these to try?</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Any help is appreciated.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Carey</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: .5in;">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">
</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Baumgartner, Wes [<a href="mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu" target="_blank">mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu</a>]
<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 1, 2015 4:25 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> Carey G Cottle Jr MD<br />
<b>Subject:</b> RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Carey,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">You raise an interesting
question. I don’t know if the cryptobia can survive the low pH, nor am I sure
of the pH of a discus stomach. If the cryptobia are relatively symbiotic in the
discus stomach, then I tend to doubt that acid treatment would affect
flagellates in an acid stomach. However, if diseased individuals have abnormally
high gastric pH, then acid treatments (with swallowing) may affect flagellate
numbers in the stomach, possibly relieving the infection temporarily.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Also, you’re right that the acid
treatment may be doing something unrelated to the cryptobia. I found moderate
numbers of dermocystidium in the gills, which normally don’t cause too much of
a problem. Acid baths may reduce these parasites, leading to improved fish
behavior.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I’ll look in to cryptobia in
stool samples as a diagnostic method.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Carey G Cottle Jr MD [<a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net" target="_blank">mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net</a>]
<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 27, 2015 11:29 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> Baumgartner, Wes<br />
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:uncommoncreaturesmvs@gmail.com" target="_blank">uncommoncreaturesmvs@gmail.com</a>;
'Carey Cottle Jr MD'<br />
<b>Subject:</b> FW: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Wes, </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I wonder if we can take
advantage of one of the features of discus….they tolerate a low pH of
4.0. Do cryptobia tolerate pH 4.0? </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Here’s the background. I
took the 3 discus that showed poor or limited eating and QT them for 3-4 days
and lowered the pH to 4.0. The discus that was euthanized, and which you
received, responded initially. He began eating all foods again for 2-3
days (after not eating for over a week) before he suddenly died. The
other fish also responded to the low pH treatment and have started eating all
foods again. I had seen an article that said mycobacteria did not survive
at pH below 4.0 and I knew discus could so that’s what gave me the idea to try
it. BC of a trip I had upcoming I had to return them to the main tank on
Tues of this last week. My main tank is maintained between 6.2 and 6.8
depending on the time of day. In the QT tank at pH 4.0 the nitrifying bacteria
also die and ammonia levels build up too high without daily 80% water
changes. I wasn’t going to be there to make the daily water changes
necessary for maintaining a pH 4.0 tank therefore I had to return the fish to
the main tank. </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I wonder if Cyrptobia don’t
tolerate low pH could we do an experiment using low pH to try curing the discus
from this menace. If you think adding metronidazole may help as well we
could do a combination. It was really remarkable seeing all the fish
regain their appetite using the low pH. This of course could have been a
coincidence. Humans secret acid in their GI tract and yet occasionally
pathogens survive. Maybe discus GI pathogens also tolerate low pH.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">For your info. My main
tank is a planted discus tank 90 gallons in size. It is maintained at 82F
for the discus. I do 40% water changes weekly without fail. I use
local tap water every other week alternating with RO water for the
changes. The tank is connected to a computer where I monitor temp, pH,
ORP (oxidation reduction potential) continuously. </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Can Cryptobia be diagnosed by
microscopy of stool? I have a Nikon microscope and am interested in
learning to better recognize pathogens in discus stool samples. If you
have any suggestions on aids to help with microscopic identification of
pathogens I would appreciate it. I have seen flagellates but wasn’t sure
what was pathogenic and what wasn’t. Of course stool samples must be
analyzed immediately upon collection. If I learn to recognize the
pathogens then Dr. Young can treat the fish correctly.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Thank you for your expertise,
interest, and concern.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Carey Cottle</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Baumgartner, Wes [<a href="mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu" target="_blank">mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu</a>]
<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 24, 2015 1:34 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> Carey Cottle Jr MD<br />
<b>Subject:</b> RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Carey,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I’ve reviewed the histology
slides of your discus and I’ve found several microscopic stomach granulomas
that lack acid fast organisms. A wasting syndrome in discus fish associated
with stomach granulomas has been reported in association with cryptobia
iubilans, a flagellate of the intestinal tract. I think this is probably what’s
been going on. I saw no convincing evidence of mycobacteriosis. I spoke with
Sam and I’ve got a sample of spleen in ethanol that we can run PCR for
mycobacteria on. However, without granulomas in any tissue but the stomach, I
doubt we’d find any evidence for mycobacteria. </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I’ve attached a report of
cryptobia in discus that you will find interesting. The syndrome in your tank
is remarkably similar. Treatment is difficult.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Additionally, there is abundant
iron in the liver, which I associate with high red cell turnover. It is
uncommon in fish and of uncertain significance, though can be associated with
pollution in wild fish populations.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I’ll send a report by next week
to Sam. This is an interesting condition in discus, the mechanism and cause of
which is not entirely certain. I’ll mention this to the fish parasitologist in
the department and see if there is interest in studying this disease.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Many thanks for the great case. </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Regards,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Carey Cottle Jr MD [<a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net" target="_blank">mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net</a>] <br />
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:47 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> Baumgartner, Wes<br />
<b>Cc:</b> Dr. Sam Young<br />
<b>Subject:</b> RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Thank you so much, Wes! I
am anxious to learn from your expertise. I will forward this to Sam Young
DVM. He is happy to participate as well. </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">My loss will be rewarded by the
advancement of knowledge for the significant Discus loving community.
“Discus wasting disease” is a common syndrome from which my fish
suffer. No doubt, this syndrome can have multiple causes, but a
definitive diagnosis in any case would be helpful.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Be safe in the ice,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Carey </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Baumgartner, Wes [<a href="mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu" target="_blank">mailto:baumgartner@cvm.msstate.edu</a>]
<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:52 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> Carey Cottle Jr MD<br />
<b>Subject:</b> RE: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Carey,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I will be out of the office
tomorrow due to icy weather here in Mississippi-I’ll try and contact Sam
tomorrow or perhaps Thursday. </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I spoke with a friend of mine at
LSU- if the discus is euthanized and freshly examined, sterile samples of
granulomatous material can be overnighted on ice to him for culture, PCR, and
antimicrobial testing. </span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">His address:</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Louisiana Aquatic Animal
Diagnostic Lab c/o John Hawke</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">1043 River Road</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Baton Rouge LA 70803</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Formalin fixed tissues,
preferably the whole fish, can be sent to me at:</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Wes Baumgartner</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">240 Wise Center Drive</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Mississippi State, MS</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">39762</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">I’ll have a look at the reports
and materials you’ve sent.</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Best regards,</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: #1f497d;">Wes</span><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Carey Cottle Jr MD [<a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net" target="_blank">mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net</a>] <br />
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 24, 2015 10:22 AM<br />
<b>To:</b> Baumgartner, Wes<br />
<b>Subject:</b> FW: new stool sample of corral colored thin discus (Cottle)</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="mso-outline-level: 1;">
<b><span style="color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="color: black;"> Carey Cottle Jr MD [<a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net" target="_blank">mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net</a>] <br />
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 11, 2014 7:09 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> Dr. Sam Young (<a href="mailto:drsam@uncommoncreatures.com" target="_blank">drsam@uncommoncreatures.com</a>); <a href="mailto:ccottle@earthlink.net" target="_blank">ccottle@earthlink.net</a><br />
<b>Subject:</b> new stool sample of corral colored thin discus</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black;">Sam,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black;">There are couple of things to see
in this stool sample. I don’t know what either are. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black;">One is round large with apparent
nucleus and spike protrusions.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black;">The other is a rod-like organism
with a distinct wall and which is motile. The video shows that.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black;">I checked the Noga textbook.
Didn’t see anything like these. They may be benign.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black;">Thanks again.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="color: black;">Carey</span></div>
Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-18305739188455242392015-03-05T10:17:00.001-08:002015-03-05T10:17:12.466-08:002015-3-6 QT fishpH 4.0 in QT.<br />
All fish have resumed eating.<br />
The constipation that developed resolved with MgSO4.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-29464589466107760922015-03-03T08:01:00.002-08:002015-03-03T08:01:38.397-08:002015-3-3 QT of 3 fish<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
Sam,</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I’d like to go ahead and send one of my affected fish to Dr.
Baumgartner. The coral colored one which is blind in one eye has lost so
much weight I’m not sure he can recover. He is eating a bit. </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I have QT 3 fish that were not eating normally and had lost
weight. I have tried an experiment and want your thoughts.</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Jack Wattley is a discus breeder and expert of many
decades. He’s written about an antimicrobial approach that I’ve
occasionally used with success by lowering the pH of my QT tank gradually to
4.0. Discus tolerate this well but bacteria don’t. All 3 fish have
started eating better but this may be temporary. I found a scientific
article that tested TB mycobacteria can handle pH down to 4.5 but not
4.0. My question for you is will lowering the aquarium pH to 4.0 result
in a pH of 4.0 in the fish where the presumed mycobacteria are? I know
they are extracellular pathogens.</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Your thoughts?</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Thanks,</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Carey</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
To add: fish started eating better and the ARSG started head-standing this am. Tx for constipation. </div>
Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-74517754311870822682015-01-04T13:05:00.001-08:002015-01-04T13:05:09.593-08:002015-1-4Finished Toltrazuril yesterday..50mg/ml X 6.5 ml X 3 doses q 48h.<br />
<br />
Today added TCN out of the thought that organisms within the granulomas may die causing necrosis and 2ndary infection as has been shown in pathology.<br />
<br />
Hopefully this will turn the tank around. The sickest fish still look better. There were no noticeable sided effects from toltrazuril and the milky substance coagulated out fairly quickly.<br />
The TCN on the other hand makes the fish stressed and go to the corners. Of interest monocycline did not have that effect.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-6967561359487425082014-12-29T16:26:00.000-08:002014-12-29T16:26:38.377-08:002014-12-29 added toltrazuril todayFrom Dr. Sam Young<br />
Toltrazuril 50mg/ml addedd 6.5ml at 4:30pm. Instructions to bathe 1 hour then 50%water change. Repeat every 48 hrs for 3 total doses.<br />
<br />
The fish do not appear bothered by the med and there is litttle evidence of side effects from reading on the internet. Other studies have done baths for up to 4 hours at a time. I have not decided what to do yet. It is now 7:30. I guess I will do the water change.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-28110146908677132562014-11-12T15:32:00.000-08:002014-11-12T15:34:02.651-08:002012-11-12 got path results today<!--[if !mso]>
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<div align="center" class="MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 6.0pt; mso-add-space: auto; text-align: center;">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 36.0pt;">Uncommon Creatures</span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 10.0pt;"></span></b></div>
<div align="center" class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in; mso-add-space: auto; text-align: center;">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 14.0pt;">Mobile Veterinary Services</span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 8.0pt;"></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in; mso-add-space: auto; tab-stops: right 6.5in;">
<span style="font-size: 12.0pt;">Drs. Jess and Sam Young</span><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span>(704)
603-7520</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0in; mso-add-space: auto; tab-stops: right 6.5in;">
Winston Salem NC
27103<span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span><a href="mailto:drsam@uncommoncreatures.com"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">drsam@uncommoncreatures.com</span></a><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;"></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 10.0pt;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span></span><a href="http://www.uncommoncreatures.com/"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;">www.UncommonCreatures.com</span></a><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;"></span></div>
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<span style="height: 67px; left: -123px; mso-ignore: vglayout; position: relative; top: 58px; width: 1033px; z-index: 251659264;"><img height="9" src="file:///C:\Users\CAREYC~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png" width="1033" /></span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: Papyrus; font-size: 8.0pt;"> </span></b></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Patient:</span></b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"> Unamed<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">Species:
</b>Discus (<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;">Symphysodon discus</i>)<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">DOB</b>:
Unknown<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">Sex</b>: Unknown<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">Breed/Color</b>: Orange</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Owner: </span></b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Carey Cottle, MD<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">600 Green
Valley Road, Ste. 204</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Greensboro,
NC 27408</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">(336)
453-8639</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Upcoming Reminders: </span></b></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">None currently</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Date: 10-15-2014</span></b></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=456627270283655252" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"></a></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">S/O:</span></b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"> Client has been dealing with a few
patients that continue to lose weight and are not eating.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Client first noted affected individuals were
passing long mucoid fecal casts that would remain attached at the patient’s vent
and under microscopy contained numerous protozoal parasites.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This was first observed 4-5 months ago.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Based on images the client captured under
microscope, the tank was treated with several courses of medications including
praziquantel, levamisole, metronidazole, and a fluroquinolone.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Mild and brief improvement was noted. Repeat
fecals revealed some similar and some new parasitic species, but no real
improvement in clinical signs.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">The poorest
doing of the affected fish was selected for euthanasia and histopathology.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Assessment/Procedures: </span></b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Patient extremely emaciated.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Does show mild interest in food, but
regurgitates immediately.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Patient was
isolated from tank mates in 1 gallon bucket and 500mg/L buffered MS-222 added.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Patient was non-responsive and floating
upside down within 3 minutes.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Patient
was retrieved and placed in 10% formalin.</span></div>
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<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Pathology Results:</span></b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;"> See attached report for full
interpretation.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Major finding: Severe
necrotizing subacute to chronic bacterial enteritis.<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="mso-tab-count: 1;"> </span></b></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">Discussion: </span></b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">So seems we were fighting the wrong
pathogen all along.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There is some
mention of mild parasitic branchitis (inflammation of the gills), but this is
most likely secondary to his debilitated state.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>There was also some inflammation noted of gallbladder and
hepatopancreas, but this is more than likely the result of parasitic migration
from the gi tract.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>We were not able to
discern the specific species of bacteria affecting this individual however it
does appear to be a gram negative species that we can focus our future treatments
towards.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Acid fast stains were negative
so we do know we are not dealing with Mycobacteria, which is always a good
thing. Likely those individuals that may have already developed granulomas may
be too far gone.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Let’s plan a visit soon
to discuss the current condition of all individuals and decide on a course of
antibiotic treatment.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%;">-Sam Young,
DVM</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
GH 140ppm<br />
KH 70ppm<br />
NO3 10ppm<br />
PO4 0.5ppm<br />
<br />
Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-66358033836191719942014-11-03T15:38:00.000-08:002014-11-03T15:38:02.445-08:002014-11-3 cleaned filter last weekRemoved old Rowaphos last week. PO4 today was 0.5ppm with goal below 2. Algae still looks good. Using Excel and EI as directed.<br />
<br />
One of large discus looks darker than he should and is only eating mysis shrimp....not good.<br />
<br />
Awaiting necropsy results.Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-51919845745233601802014-10-13T09:51:00.000-07:002014-11-19T13:20:44.491-08:002014-10-13 Letter to vet<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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</xml><![endif]--><span style="color: red;">ADDENDUM: THESE IMAGES ARE THE CARCASS OF BLOOD WORMS FROM FISH FOOD!</span><br />
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<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
Sam,</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I hope you were able to get a look at the worm in the
pictures.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This worm did not come from
the sick fish in QT.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It came from one in
the main tank which had not eaten and then restarted eating. </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I cannot find an image of a GI parasite<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>like this on the internet, but I understand
there are thousands of species of these things.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Is there anyone we could consult now that I have the best image yet of
the head of this parasite?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Let me know
if I can do anything.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I treated the fish
for a week with Flubendazole as Charles suggested but it did not do anything
for the sickest one that you tube fed.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>He acted like he might eat yesterday but didn’t.</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I had one dosage of Levimasole left for the 10 gallon
tank.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I gave it to the fish yesterday. It
is normal for the fish to react with lethargy from this for 36 hours or so. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I am dosing both tanks with Prazi pro twice
weekly and plan to do so for a month. </div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I have had 2 fish stop eating and restart eating in the last
couple of days.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>One was in the QT tank
with the sickest fish and one was in the main tank and is the one from which
the pics were taken.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Therefore I think
maybe Prazipro helps if they are not severely infected.</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Unless you think we should sacrifice this fish for pathology
or have another idea, maybe as I said earlier I may not have dosed the
levimasole frequently enough given the shorter worm life cycle at the higher
discus tank temps.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The fish could’ve
been reinfected by hatched worms.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>What
do you think?</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Carey </div>
<br />
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Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-77020379250121993412014-10-02T16:30:00.001-07:002014-10-02T16:30:26.219-07:002014-10-2New stool sample shows same worm noted before. This was from yellow discuis.<br />
<br />
Added Metro and Prazi and DeLos to both hosp and main tank. Have corral discus and yellow discus in QT tank. Dr. Young tube fed metro to corral discus last night.<br />
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Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-456627270283655252.post-81211649554759203952014-09-21T13:24:00.001-07:002014-09-21T13:24:38.043-07:002014-9-21 Meds addedStill not solved the parasite problem despite rounds of levamisole plus metronidazole and between dosing of prazipro.<br />
One of the coral discus is infected now and not eating for over a week. Will dose Metronidazole 10gm plus prazipro.<br />
Thinking of getting Dr. Young back and force feeding meds to the fish who won't eat.<br />
Carey Cottlehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15872260428322647085noreply@blogger.com0